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	<updated>2026-07-20T02:22:03Z</updated>
	<subtitle>Revision history for this page on the wiki</subtitle>
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	<entry>
		<id>https://ronware.org/w/index.php?title=Devar/5771/Vayeshev&amp;diff=7100&amp;oldid=prev</id>
		<title>Ron at 17:31, 2 December 2010</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://ronware.org/w/index.php?title=Devar/5771/Vayeshev&amp;diff=7100&amp;oldid=prev"/>
		<updated>2010-12-02T17:31:51Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
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				&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;← Older revision&lt;/td&gt;
				&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;Revision as of 17:31, 2 December 2010&lt;/td&gt;
				&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-lineno&quot; id=&quot;mw-diff-left-l25&quot; &gt;Line 25:&lt;/td&gt;
&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-lineno&quot;&gt;Line 25:&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&#039;diff-marker&#039;&gt; &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&#039;diff-marker&#039;&gt; &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&#039;diff-marker&#039;&gt; &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&#039;diff-marker&#039;&gt; &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&#039;diff-marker&#039;&gt;−&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;{{nav|Devar|Devar|Devar/5771/Vayishlach|Vayishlach||}}&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&#039;diff-marker&#039;&gt;+&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;{{nav|Devar|Devar|Devar/5771/Vayishlach|Vayishlach|&lt;ins class=&quot;diffchange diffchange-inline&quot;&gt;Devar/5771/Mikets&lt;/ins&gt;|&lt;ins class=&quot;diffchange diffchange-inline&quot;&gt;Mikets&lt;/ins&gt;}}&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/table&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Ron</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://ronware.org/w/index.php?title=Devar/5771/Vayeshev&amp;diff=7096&amp;oldid=prev</id>
		<title>Viviana at 12:18, 26 November 2010</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://ronware.org/w/index.php?title=Devar/5771/Vayeshev&amp;diff=7096&amp;oldid=prev"/>
		<updated>2010-11-26T12:18:15Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;table class=&quot;diff diff-contentalign-left diff-editfont-monospace&quot; data-mw=&quot;interface&quot;&gt;
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				&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;← Older revision&lt;/td&gt;
				&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; style=&quot;background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;&quot;&gt;Revision as of 12:18, 26 November 2010&lt;/td&gt;
				&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-lineno&quot; id=&quot;mw-diff-left-l20&quot; &gt;Line 20:&lt;/td&gt;
&lt;td colspan=&quot;2&quot; class=&quot;diff-lineno&quot;&gt;Line 20:&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&#039;diff-marker&#039;&gt; &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;We do not have such an extreme custom.  Rather, what do we do?  Modest Jewish women cover their bodies with garments which cover most of their skin, and married women also cover their hair.  But covering a woman&amp;#039;s face is almost unheard of among us, except for those Jewish women who came from Arab lands who used to cover their faces with a sort of very light veil, as was the custom in the lands from which they came.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&#039;diff-marker&#039;&gt; &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;We do not have such an extreme custom.  Rather, what do we do?  Modest Jewish women cover their bodies with garments which cover most of their skin, and married women also cover their hair.  But covering a woman&amp;#039;s face is almost unheard of among us, except for those Jewish women who came from Arab lands who used to cover their faces with a sort of very light veil, as was the custom in the lands from which they came.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&#039;diff-marker&#039;&gt; &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&#039;diff-marker&#039;&gt; &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&#039;diff-marker&#039;&gt;−&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;In terms of the Law: these sorts of matters go according to local custom.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;…in a place where only women &lt;del class=&quot;diffchange diffchange-inline&quot;&gt;where &lt;/del&gt;those sorts of clothes, or that kind of jewelry; all according to the local custom&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; {{hcite|i/1412n.htm#11|Laws of Idolatry 12:11}}. Regarding modesty itself: &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; these are the things, which if a woman did one of them she would be transgressing the Jewish manner: if she went out to the marketplace or to a thoroughfare, and her hair is uncovered and she is not wearing a veil like other women, even though she does have a kerchief…&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  {{hcite|i/4124n.htm#11|Laws of Women 24:11}}.  That is, in a place where most Jewish women go out with head coverings, any Jewish woman must also do so.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&#039;diff-marker&#039;&gt;+&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;In terms of the Law: these sorts of matters go according to local custom.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;…in a place where only women &lt;ins class=&quot;diffchange diffchange-inline&quot;&gt;wear &lt;/ins&gt;those sorts of clothes, or that kind of jewelry; all according to the local custom&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; {{hcite|i/1412n.htm#11|Laws of Idolatry 12:11}}. Regarding modesty itself: &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; these are the things, which if a woman did one of them she would be transgressing the Jewish manner: if she went out to the marketplace or to a thoroughfare, and her hair is uncovered and she is not wearing a veil like other women, even though she does have a kerchief…&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  {{hcite|i/4124n.htm#11|Laws of Women 24:11}}.  That is, in a place where most Jewish women go out with head coverings, any Jewish woman must also do so.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&#039;diff-marker&#039;&gt; &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&#039;diff-marker&#039;&gt; &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr&gt;&lt;td class=&#039;diff-marker&#039;&gt; &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;In our verse, Judah sees a woman with a covered face and thinks she is a harlot.  That is, a licentious woman who covers her face so she won&amp;#039;t be recognized.  Such a woman negates that which is unique to her, and presents herself as a body and nothing more.  Therefore the Muslims behave as they do, and we do not.  Because despite the fact that &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;All glorious is the king&amp;#039;s daughter within the palace&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; {{hcite|p/pt/pt2645.htm#14|Psa 45:14}}, we do not consider a woman to be a captive or a prisoner -- and those women who recently began to cover themselves with &amp;#039;&amp;#039;burka&amp;#039;&amp;#039;-like garments do not increase their modesty as they imagine they do, and perhaps the opposite.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;td class=&#039;diff-marker&#039;&gt; &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td style=&quot;background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;&quot;&gt;&lt;div&gt;In our verse, Judah sees a woman with a covered face and thinks she is a harlot.  That is, a licentious woman who covers her face so she won&amp;#039;t be recognized.  Such a woman negates that which is unique to her, and presents herself as a body and nothing more.  Therefore the Muslims behave as they do, and we do not.  Because despite the fact that &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;All glorious is the king&amp;#039;s daughter within the palace&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; {{hcite|p/pt/pt2645.htm#14|Psa 45:14}}, we do not consider a woman to be a captive or a prisoner -- and those women who recently began to cover themselves with &amp;#039;&amp;#039;burka&amp;#039;&amp;#039;-like garments do not increase their modesty as they imagine they do, and perhaps the opposite.&lt;/div&gt;&lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/table&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Viviana</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://ronware.org/w/index.php?title=Devar/5771/Vayeshev&amp;diff=7089&amp;oldid=prev</id>
		<title>Ron: Created page with &#039;{{bismilla}}  {{header|Vayeshev 5771|וישב תשע&quot;א}}  {{hebrew}} {{pasuqh|וַיִּרְאֶהָ יְהוּדָה, וַיַּחְשְׁבֶהָ לְזוֹנָה:  כִּי …&#039;</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://ronware.org/w/index.php?title=Devar/5771/Vayeshev&amp;diff=7089&amp;oldid=prev"/>
		<updated>2010-11-26T09:32:17Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Created page with &amp;#039;{{bismilla}}  {{header|Vayeshev 5771|וישב תשע&amp;quot;א}}  {{hebrew}} {{pasuqh|וַיִּרְאֶהָ יְהוּדָה, וַיַּחְשְׁבֶהָ לְזוֹנָה:  כִּי …&amp;#039;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;New page&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div&gt;{{bismilla}} &lt;br /&gt;
{{header|Vayeshev 5771|וישב תשע&amp;quot;א}}&lt;br /&gt;
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{{pasuqh|וַיִּרְאֶהָ יְהוּדָה, וַיַּחְשְׁבֶהָ לְזוֹנָה:  כִּי כִסְּתָה, פָּנֶיהָ|p/pt/pt0138.htm#15|בראשית לח:טו}}&lt;br /&gt;
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{{heb|בעולם המוסלמי נהוג בהרבה מקומות לכסות את פני האישה.  בכמה מן המקומות נהוג אף לכסותן לגמרי מן הקדקוד ועד כף הרגל בכסות המכסה את כל הגוף כולו.  כל זה לעניין צניעות על פי דעתם.}}&lt;br /&gt;
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{{heb|אין לנו מנהג רחוק-לכת כל-כך.  אלא מה עושים?  בנות ישראל הצנועות מכסות את גופן בבגדים שמכסים את רוב העור, ונשים נשואות מכסות גם את השיער שלהן.  אבל לכסות את פני האישה, כמעט ולא לא נמצא אצלנו -- אלא שבנות ארצות ערב היו מכסות את פניהן במין צעיף קל ביותר, כמנהג הארצות אשר באו מהן.}}&lt;br /&gt;
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{{heb|להלכה: שבדברים כאלה הולכים אחר מנהג המדינה.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;…בִּמְקוֹם שְׁאֵין לוֹבְשִׁין אוֹתָן הַכֵּלִים וְאֵין מְשִׂימִים אוֹתוֹ הַחֲלִי, אֵלָא הַנָּשִׁים:  הַכֹּל, כְּמִנְהַג הַמְּדִינָה&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; {{hcite|i/1412n.htm#11|הל&amp;#039; עבודה זרה יב:יא}}.  ולגבי הצניעות עצמה: &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;אֵלּוּ הֶן הַדְּבָרִים שְׁאִם עָשָׂת אֶחָד מֵהֶן, עָבְרָה עַל דָּת יְהוּדִית:  יוֹצְאָה לַשּׁוּק אוֹ לְמָבוֹי מְפֻלָּשׁ, וְרֹאשָׁהּ פָּרוּעַ וְאֵין עָלֶיהָ רָדִיד כִּשְׁאָר הַנָּשִׁים, אַף עַל פִּי שֶׁשְּׂעָרָהּ מְכֻסֶּה בְּמִטְפַּחַת…&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; {{hcite|i/4124n.htm#11|הל&amp;#039; אישות כד:יא}}.  כלומר, במקום שהנשים היהודיות מסתובבות בראש מכוסה, כל בת ישראל צריכה לעשות כן, ואולי להפך.}}&lt;br /&gt;
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{{heb|אך בפרשתנו רואים שיהודה ראה אישה מכוסת-פנים, וחשב שהיא זונה.  כלומר אישה פרוצה שמכסה את פניה כדי שלא תוכר.  אישה כזאת מבטלת את המיוחד לה, ומשימה עצמה כגוף ולא יותר.  ולכן אצל המוסלמים נהוג כך ואצלנו לא.  כי למרות ש&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;כָּל-כְּבוּדָּה בַת-מֶלֶךְ פְּנִימָה&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; {{hcite|p/pt/pt2645.htm#14|תהילים מה:יד}}, אין האישה אצלנו נחשבת כשבויה ואסירה -- ואותן הנשים שהחלו זה מקרוב לכסות עצמן ברעלות כו&amp;#039; אינן מוסיפות בצניעות כמדומה להן.}}&lt;br /&gt;
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{{english}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{pasuq|When Judah saw her, he thought her to be a harlot; for she had covered her face|p/pt/pt0138.htm#15|Gen 38:15}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the Muslim world, the custom in many places is that women cover their faces.  In some places, the custom is to clothe their entire body from their head down to their toes with an all-encompassing garment.  All of this, in accord with their notions of modesty.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We do not have such an extreme custom.  Rather, what do we do?  Modest Jewish women cover their bodies with garments which cover most of their skin, and married women also cover their hair.  But covering a woman&amp;#039;s face is almost unheard of among us, except for those Jewish women who came from Arab lands who used to cover their faces with a sort of very light veil, as was the custom in the lands from which they came.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In terms of the Law: these sorts of matters go according to local custom.  &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;…in a place where only women where those sorts of clothes, or that kind of jewelry; all according to the local custom&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; {{hcite|i/1412n.htm#11|Laws of Idolatry 12:11}}. Regarding modesty itself: &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; these are the things, which if a woman did one of them she would be transgressing the Jewish manner: if she went out to the marketplace or to a thoroughfare, and her hair is uncovered and she is not wearing a veil like other women, even though she does have a kerchief…&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;  {{hcite|i/4124n.htm#11|Laws of Women 24:11}}.  That is, in a place where most Jewish women go out with head coverings, any Jewish woman must also do so.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In our verse, Judah sees a woman with a covered face and thinks she is a harlot.  That is, a licentious woman who covers her face so she won&amp;#039;t be recognized.  Such a woman negates that which is unique to her, and presents herself as a body and nothing more.  Therefore the Muslims behave as they do, and we do not.  Because despite the fact that &amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039;All glorious is the king&amp;#039;s daughter within the palace&amp;#039;&amp;#039;&amp;#039; {{hcite|p/pt/pt2645.htm#14|Psa 45:14}}, we do not consider a woman to be a captive or a prisoner -- and those women who recently began to cover themselves with &amp;#039;&amp;#039;burka&amp;#039;&amp;#039;-like garments do not increase their modesty as they imagine they do, and perhaps the opposite.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{nav|Devar|Devar|Devar/5771/Vayishlach|Vayishlach||}}&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Ron</name></author>
	</entry>
</feed>